HaZe

If your “never” is limited to the last 1-2 years then ill give you that. I wasn’t interested in boosting or enabling more builds or skills to an outlier job that was shining in PvP. Recent patches focused on skills and jobs that were lacking, not on the ones already destroying the arena. now that their OP skills have been removed from HA then I can focus on boosting and revising their pre renewal skills. Just because they arent useful now doesnt mean they will remain useless in the future. This isnt a topic to balance their pre renewal skills or melee builds, its a topic that discusses the disabling of their renewal skills in 2nd job maps. We have a skill suggestion forum for a reason, go ahead and post your concerns there.

@ZeroGravity Not everything has to be black or white, especially in our server. That’s why our ratemyserver profile says “renewal-ish” not fully renewal. We have some renewal content with some pre re formulas. i’m sure it would be ideal to have full pre re formulas and dynamics in hero arena but thats not a realistic thing to ask. It is already difficult enough to balance the hundreds of skills for our current dynamics, what you are asking is for literally each skill to be balanced twice. If renewal do this else do that. Not only that but you would be requiring players to completely change their stats and equipment every time they switch from a renewal map to a pre renewal map. This would not only be hella annoying but also confusing as well. I’m not going to spend hundreds or thousands of hours extensively modifying the source so we can be both pre-renewal in certain maps and renewal in others, and annoy and confuse everyone, only so oboro/kagerou and rebellion can feel “fair”. Its quite simple. Any skill that existed in pre renewal should be usable in the HA while any skill that did not exist in pre-re should be disabled. All while having our “renewal-ish” dynamics in place. The jobs can still be used in 95% of maps, division events, 3rd jobs pvp and WoE. Now as others mentioned, i can go ahead and nerf the hell of all their skills damage and add cool downs so they are fair in HA, but that would mean completely killing the job in all 3rd jobs maps. I doubt thats what you want even though thats what you are asking for.

Sounds like a lot of your reasoning for oboro/kagerou skills to be enabled is based on certain “ninja” only skills not being up to par with other jobs, so I would encourage you to make suggestions so that those skills can be revisited and revised as needed.

1. The name “3rd job pvp” was way before we moved to renewal, we couldnt name it renewal pvp because it wasnt renewal. I do consider it to be an arena where all skills are enabled, while 2nd jobs pvp would be up to trans classes and no renewal skills. Dont base it on the name of an arena base it on the purpose of the arena. The name is just a name.. 2. Basing it on skill count, if you add swordman, knight and lord knight skills they add up to 23. If you count number of skills for ninja, it has 23. Swordman has only 5-6 skills so please dont compare a swordman to a ninja when it comes to skill count. If you add ninja+oboro skills they would have 50++, a lot more than most trans jobs. 3. Dont compare ninjas magic elements to warlock or sorcers. Warlocks cant go melee while ninjas have a whole melee skill set. In addition, warlocks dont have all the defensive and evasion skills that ninjas and oboro has, which pretty much makes then unkillable by most jobs when played right. 4. We actually dont have a lot of renewal stats..atk and matk formulas are not renewal, neither is thanatos and def piercing damage. A lot of stats and mechanics were reverted to pre renewal of modified to behave closer to ore renewal. 5. Same as point 3, you cant have such high burst damage when the same job also has extensive evasive skills. The reduction of charm bonus is because we have boosted the base damage of most ninjas skills and with the default charm boost it was literally broken damage. This is unrelated to whether they should use their renewal skills in an arena where all other jobs cannot use their renewal skills. 6. Just this last 7 days there were 35 different ninjas with logged kills and deaths. Still the job has a k/d of 2.5 while most jobs have 1 or under 1. They also had the most kills per user and least deaths per user. So basically they had the best stats in all areas..its not just 3 of u that play ninja. This is data from pvp woe and bg. 7. Not going to comment on this as the removal of these jobs from 2nd job maps was solely my idea and not influenced by anybody. Its mind blowing that this wasnt suggested before or that i didnt disable them right after implementing them.

I dont see the relevance between star emperors/soul reapers and oboro/kagerou and rebellion lol. To answer my own question, no, those jobs did not exist in pre renewal..hence why they were removed from 2nd job pvp arenas (which to me should be limited to pre-renewal skills). Ninjas and Gunslinger did absolutely fine before we moved to renewal. Their skills were boosted and they were on par and sometimes even better than some trans jobs. At one point gunners were preferred over Snipers. If the arguement is that those jobs are currently not as balanced as they were before, then I would welcome any suggestion to those skills to bring them up to par with other trans job. Same as they were a couple of years ago on our server

Soul Linker and Star Gladiator existed in pre-renewal. Did Oboro/Kagerou, Rebellion or 3rd jobs exist in pre-renewal?

I have disabled in BG, 2nd Jobs PvP and WoE and enabled only in maps where 3rd job skills are enabled. My reasoning behind it is... While iRO wiki has those jobs classified as "Extended 2nd Jobs" -- those jobs & skills did not exist when the transcendent patch came out. Heck, they were even released after 3rd jobs were released..so I consider them to be the same as 3rd jobs. Kind of want to keep the essence of 2nd jobs/trans PvP/WoE arenas the way they were before... Oboro/Kagerou/Rebellion skills are still not balanced, much like a lot of the 3rd job skills. This is definitely not a permanent decision, more of a trial period and a start for a discussion about it. I want to see how the PvP data changes when those skills are removed from 2nd job pvp arenas. Right now Ninjas (Oboro/Kagerou) are extreme outliers and I'm interested to see the balance with those jobs excluded. I welcome you to change my mind! Let the rant begin!

If you have any valid suggestions regarding any skill balancing, I welcome you to open a topic and discuss those skills. If you are just here to rant and without any constructive criticism, we are not interested.

Greetings Dreamers! Thanks to the player reviews we have received in the last couple of weeks, we have seen a flood of new players joining our server and our online count is steadily rising! In addition to getting new players, we have also seen an explosion of interest in regards to the recent release of Job Balancing Patch #1 and Patch #2. We've noticed a huge number of players that have already begun trying out all the changes and creating new characters to try different classes. In order to help jump-start the creating of new characters from veterans and newbies alike, we felt it was the perfect moment to release a donation promo. Typically this only happens once a year during Black Friday/Cyber Monday sales, but we've decided to make an exception this time. We're hoping this donation promo allows our players to get a head start on their new character by making it more affordable to get those MvP cards, Headgears or even the instant Elite Hero Scrolls. For a limited time only, all donations between 5$ and $49 will receive 2x credits. Donations of $50 or more will receive 3x the amount of credits! This means if you donate 20$ you will receive 40 donation credits ~ Donate $40 and you will receive 80 credits ~ Donate $60 and you will receive 180 credits. This donation promo will end on Sunday, July 14 at 11:59 PM Eastern Time.

This was forgotten so quickly and ignored by so many ...

Please make a proper topic for each skill on the skill balancing suggestion topic. Lets not turn this topic into a discussion on what is balanced or not, as its going to be nearly impossible to track and fix.

Cart boost should already be by passing quagmire but decrease agi is its counter so i cannot make it ignore that. @Insanity333 thanks for the support but lets try to keep our replies respectable and avoid insulting or bashing other players opinions.

I guess you are basing your observation on patch #1 & #2, which were purposely revising skills that are off-meta. (Notice how we didnt touch any meta skills). If you look at my 12 year history you should see I’m not afraid of nerfing even the most popular builds and items. when you talk about damage being on steroids, your opinion is mostly based on 3rd job skills (which again, none was touched in these patches). Very few 2nd class skills actually do decent damage enough to be used, which is why most jobs only have 1-2 viable builds when it comes to 2nds pvp. Regarding the average HP of 1.5-2m, thats probably the right average for glass cannon/squishy jobs. But tankier jobs have a MUCH higher average HP rate. Our server has a ton of damage reduction equipment, i mean..1 simple headgear already reduces 35% of the damage.. Thats why I very rarely do any 2nd jobs pvp tournament, because the matches last way too long due to a lot of damage reduction gears + low damage 2nd job skills.