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HaZe

Anonymous Poll About Gepard Shield

  

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Question

Your votes in this poll are completely anonymous even to the staff!

 

This is a serious question that I want you all to truly answer and discuss. 

 

As many as you know, DreamerRO has been running since 2008. Since then I always tried to avoid implementing anti-cheat shields into the server because I had seen and experienced the effect of such shields on servers that installed them. I always noticed population drops on the servers that installed it but I always attributed it to the removal of bots and cheaters. (they were usually by passed quite easily too!)
 
 
 Fast forward to 2016, we looked into a very promising anti-cheat shields which seemed to be very hard to by-pass. At the time we also had a lot of drama and reports regarding macro users spamming skills at an abnormal rate. Finally, I decided to give this anti-cheat shield a trial to see if ran well with the server.
 
While Gepard shield has proven to be VERY hard to by-pass and VERY effective in ridding the server of macro users and bots, we have also noticed the consequences of this shield. In less than 1 year our "users online" has dropped by about 40%, I do have to add though that the number of online players has drastically reduced because the population of merchants has dropped by 300%~. (We went from 600-700 merchants to 100-250) We attribute the drop in merchants to the addition of the new vending system, as well as reduced amount of bots selling miscellaneous items. 
 
 

 
TL;DR
We have actually heard from many players that they quit because of Gepard Shield and I some do not join because of Gepard Shield. So obviously we had to look into it...

We conducted some research, asked players around and learned that a lot of players depend on macros to compete with other players in PvP. People with lower ping would always spam faster than people with high ping, but the macros helped to close the gap. Other players admitted that spamming F keys hundreds of times to kill a player was tiring and not as enjoyable as it should be.
 
Taking everything into consideration, I am letting the community decide whether they think it's best to enable Macros so that everyone can use them on the server. Bots would still be illegal, this is only about macro and skill spamming 3rd party programs.
 
 
You can be honest here, we all want what is best for the server. You do not have to be afraid of getting banned for admitting to using 3rd party programs. You don't have to post with your main account if you don't want to, but please don't sabotage the poll with alt accounts.

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Okay, it seems this poll has reached it's verdict considering most of the latest comments are not adding on to the discussion and the number of new votes has decreased. We probably already have a random sample of players who voted for this poll so future results are likely to be about the same as they are now.

Now, I'm going to try to take a stab at the results of the poll and share how I analyze the answers to make a decision. I understand many may evaluate the answers differently than I do.

1. Did you ever used macros/auto hotkeys in DreamerRO before Gepard? (answer is anonymous)

- The higher amount of players (56%) voted that they never used macros in DreamerRO. This means they have not experienced the benefits offered by macros in the game first hand, so they still do not know if they would like to play using macros or not. (Because they never tried it here, but maybe they have in other servers). This makes the rest of the poll results a bit bias because a lot of the voters are not properly informed about the use of macros, their benefits and their consequences. (Kinda like people in countries vote NO to medicinal marijuana use but they have never tried it themselves).  Still, that means 56% of the community needs to be taught what exactly are macros, how they are used and will have to learn to practice playing DreamerRO with macros. Some of these people may learn to like playing with macros once they read guides on our forums on how to use them or simply just enable them. The rest voted that they have used it so they likely understand a little bit about the many things you can do with macros, and some probably are still using it now with Gepard enabled.

2. Do you care if other people use macros/auto hot keys in DreamerRO? (answer is anonymous)

- This is a pretty dead lock answer, 50% of the community cares and the other 50% does not care. The answer to the first question plays a big role here, we know that roughly 60% of the community has not tried macros and have poor information about them, still they care if someone uses it. Maybe if they used it themselves they would not care as much if others are using it. We believe if everyone is on the same even field automatizing keyboard and mouse actions, fewer of them will care less about others using macro because they would be using and enjoying the benefits as well.

 

3. Should DreamerRO allow macros/auto hot keys into the game? (answer is anonymous)

- The results to these questions are almost too close to base a decision of whether or not the server should allow Macros. The small majority of the server voted YES to implement macros. In a way, they recognize the negative effect it has had on the server and they believe allowing it would overall benefit the server. Some of them may not know all of the consequences that come from enabling macros, but they still voted yet. A very big group of players obviously believes that the server SHOULD NOT enable macros. They want a fair play and don't necessarily want to be forced to use a macro. The only thing I have to say is, the server had macros from 2008 to 2016 and it still did pretty good. Things don't have to be as drastic as those people who voted no may be thinking. Not only that, but we are aware that there are special keyboards and mouses that CAN STILL macro even with Gepard Shield enabled...so fully enabling it for all may actually further close the gap between players.

 

4. Do you think the server would grow if it allowed macros to be widely used in the game? 
- This answer is pretty significant, more than half of the server believes the use of macros would increase the population of the server, and remember 60% of the server has never tried macros yet. Still, many of you acknowledge that a lot of players need macro to compete and/or enjoy the server and have seen the effect Gepard has had on the population of the game. About 30% voted that they do not believe macros enabled would increase the population. Many of these people believe some will quit if they are enabled and that the server should resort to implementing new content to make the population rise. Regarding this answer, we have to remember macros were unabled for years up until only 8 months ago and people still joined, the server still grew. We have had new implementations in the last 8 months and the server population still declined. So it seems, like i mentioned in another response, that a combination of macro disabled and the addition of new content would be the ideal way to make the server population grow.

 

5. Would you quit if the server allowed macros/auto hot keys? (answer is anonymous)

- The answer to this questions is pretty significant..A grand majority of 75% of the server says they will not quit if macros were enabled. These are people that love the server regardless of whether macro is in play or not, they just want to see the server grow and enjoy what the sever has to offer. We know that a lot of players who previously quit may decide to re-join is macros were enabled on an even field, and we know a macro server may even attract a lot of people who are looking for a server where macros are not against the rules. So if 75% of the server stays with macro and we attract a lot of new/old people back into the server, that may ultimately mean the server would grow. We can't ignore the 25% of the server that said they would quit if macros were enabled, but again, we have to remember 60% of them never tried macros..If they could come to our forums and learn/download compiled macros they may learn to like them and enjoy the game further.

 

==================================================================

The Verdict

Taking in the results of the poll, the GM team has carefully decided that the best solution to increase the current population of the server is to enable the automation of keyboard and mouse functions through the use of macros, while at the same time implementing new content into the game, balancing current content, and performing careful skill balances to ensure macro use does not make certain jobs abusively overpowered.

 

The Game Plan

The plan is to start out by enabling macros via an auto-patcher update to ensure it works out as we expect it. We want to enable only macros while keeping Gepard Shield enabled. That means that bots, wpe, 0 delay sprites and everything else that Gepard Shield blocks will still be blocked from the server. Once we know it still blocks the desired 3rd party programs and enables macros, we continue on by updating the server rules to make macros legal. We need to carefully explains in the rules what is allowed and what is not allowed when it comes to macro use, for example..auto-farming with macro still counts as AFK farming, a ban-able offense. We plan to release new rules regarding macro within the first 48 hours of macro becoming legal on the server. 

 

As soon as macros become enabled on the server we will start observing and making skill balancing changes to take care of any skill that behaves abnormally with the use of macros. What we want is to keep the skill spam rate similar to what it is without macros, we do not want to add a high fixed delay and kill any skill. If a cool down is the best solution to it, then it will be a cool down. If a reduction of damage is the best solution, then we do that, etc etc.. We need to observe each skill to make these decisions, and of course, we will depend on player feedback to combat these skills that may become overpowered with macros.

 

Macro Guides

WIth macros becoming enabled on the server, the forums guide section will have a new area where people will ask questions about macros and share guides on already configured macros. We hope that just how players share optimal ED/ET and Caspen Dungeon builds, some players will actually share their amazing pre-made macros to everyone on a guide. In the future, if macros prove to be a good decision, the server full client itself would come with a safe macro that would simply need to be enabled. 

 

We know it will probably be impossible for everyone to be on the same playing field when it comes to macro and their benefits, but if we have the resources on our forums on how to properly use them for different functions, then maybe we can help close that gap a little bit. The fact that our forums may become a sanctuary for macro guides, our server may even end up getting new traffic from other players looking to learn to macro and end up staying on the server since they are enabled.

 

New Content

We have a list of new content that has already been shared on this topic by GM Denoel. These are suggestions that have been thoroughly discussed, accepted, and are soon to be coded and implemented on the server. The first big feature that will be implemented will be an extensive Mining, Forging and Crafting system that will turn many dungeons into mines that can be dug for minerals. These minerals will be required for over a dozen new equipment, new fused mvp cards and incorporated into other areas of the game as well. We would love to follow up with new guild houses, guild treasures, rotation of hero/donation shop, elite endless tower and addition of new/official instance dungeons. We would love to hear from our players on the things they like to see on the server in regards to new content and tweaking of current content.

 

 

Just like we said in the original Gepard Shield Release topic. We will observe the impact of enabling macros of the game for a couple of months. If the game plan is not working as we expected, it is very easy to turn back and disable macros again. We do ask our players to have an open mind about this change and give it a try with an open mind. We only want what is better for the server and our players.

 

In the end it will depend on the community whether the server rises or falls. If we have a loyal player base that is honest with their suggestions and comments it would be very hard for our server to fail.

 

IF YOU WANT TO HELP THE SERVER GROW, YOU CAN DO YOUR PART BY RENEWING YOUR RATEMYSERVER REVIEW HERE.

 

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Let's just keep a legit gameplay. 

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You can implement macros/chain macros because people are not like those free time to play always others are already lose endurance/stamina to there work exhausted irl then they need to click manually to compete against others who have fully conditioned and get rekt

 

If you want to close the anti cheat for macros only prepare your nerf things 1st so even player use macro its not totally o.p like crazy bolts insane bolts damage for sure someone will return and regain his name then say im a legit player

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Macros or not , not really affect me , but just annoyed by Ferzalinapseudoandothertwiceheavendriveandboltanddeadbyreflect

 

Macros did benefit most sorcs , double cast+macro can penetrate GTB+DH with 2m+ HP really easy tho

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Before you say I depended on macros, FYI I won PvP tournament without macro.

 

I admit I used macros back then ( But who didn't? Unless you are a Social Player. Those PVP players who say they didn't use macro, you can go to hell now ). I bet they will comeback if macros became legal which is good for the server ( I think ) but "bad" for those "legit" players ( I bet this "legit" players used macro too back then, they just didn't want to admit it or insecure because they got rekt to another macro user ).

 

These "legit" players who report macro users back then is because of the ff:

 

- They're too slow to switch

- Don't know how to counter

- Slow reactions

 

If ever macros become legal, I think there's only one way to balance it, reduce the damage.

 

People join HR servers because they want FAST PACED PvP unlike LR / MR servers.

 

This is just my opinion. 

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Lol why play ro if youre just gonna use 3rd party program?

I know its a pride might you think others situation not yours only or else you dont know the true meaning of exhaust/endurance and stamina because you want to play your childhood game even me i want fair game but look the population dont tell me your going to say ro is old game and lots of new interesting game read what haze post why its anonymous

Edited by killanddie

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let the Loooongggggggg HA wars begin again. who cares if u use macro or not aslong as it helps players come back .and its a choice using macro but it will help those working men just to have some fun spaming and dont damage both mouse and fingers.. 

 

#itsmorefunInDRO

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For me just an opinion, Implement MACRO but first teach others how to MACRO for a fair play, for example making a guide on how to use macro.  (Low rate - Mid rate no need macro) ( High rate like Dreamer with spamming skills needs macro to be honest)

 

no macro in High rate with spamming skills? = Keyboard Broken >Mouse Broken > Hands tired and afterwards shaking which leads to sickness > if have sickness > very tragic is to quit.

 

just saying.

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I admit i use macro when the time im really tired when fully condition i try to compete my own skills to others so i can improve my self, i need to hhh and bg but please haze if you implement macro make 1 rule to those who abuse macro for trash talk must be ban for life you must teach them good manners thats all good luck haze

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I know its a pride might you think others situation not yours only or else you dont know the true meaning of exhaust/endurance and stamina because you want to play your childhood game even me i want fair game but look the population dont tell me your going to say ro is old game and lots of new interesting game read what haze post why its anonymous

Pls do remember, if you remove gepard, you will be able to inject 3rd party program AGAIN, not only the macro users. And i dont quite see your point "endurance", so you want to say that " PVP will be alive again coz theres some fcking players whose not tired of spamming skills inside the BG or Arena ". RO is all about endurance itself, dont get me wrong but its kinda unfair for the legit players to deal with kind of shiet ingame. And i dont say RO is an old game and i nvr reason this shit out why it decreases the population in dro.

 

As you can see, dro, its regaining its former glory already. Look how many newbies are playing now.

 

dRO starts without gepard shield thats why it nests players with 3rd pt program. Now they put gepard and voila cheaters are gone, why? Coz they cant compete fair and square. Now all i want to know, why do you want it to remove? Im not quite satisfied with your answer

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Pls do remember, if you remove gepard, you will be able to inject 3rd party program AGAIN, not only the macro users. And i dont quite see your point "endurance", so you want to say that " PVP will be alive again coz theres some fcking players whose not tired of spamming skills inside the BG or Arena ". RO is all about endurance itself, dont get me wrong but its kinda unfair for the legit players to deal with kind of shiet ingame. And i dont say RO is an old game and i nvr reason this shit out why it decreases the population in dro.

 

As you can see, dro, its regaining its former glory already. Look how many newbies are playing now.

 

dRO starts without gepard shield thats why it nests players with 3rd pt program. Now they put gepard and voila cheaters are gone, why? Coz they cant compete fair and square. Now all i want to know, why do you want it to remove? Im not quite satisfied with your answer

 

 

 

While Gepard shield has proven to be VERY hard to by-pass and VERY effective in ridding the server of macro users and bots, we have also noticed the consequences of this shield. In less than 1 year our "users online" has dropped by about 40%, I do have to add though that the number of online players has drastically reduced because the population of merchants has dropped by 300%~. (We went from 600-700 merchants to 100-250) We attribute the drop in merchants to the addition of the new vending system, as well as reduced amount of bots selling miscellaneous items. 
 
THE RESEARCH SAYS IT ALL.
 
 

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Your votes in this poll are completely anonymous even to the staff!

 

This is a serious question that I want you all to truly answer and discuss. 

 

As many as you know, DreamerRO has been running since 2008. Since then I always tried to avoid implementing anti-cheat shields into the server because I had seen and experienced the effect of such shields on servers that installed them. I always noticed population drops on the servers that installed it but I always attributed it to the removal of bots and cheaters. (they were usually by passed quite easily too!)
 
 
 Fast forward to 2016, we looked into a very promising anti-cheat shields which seemed to be very hard to by-pass. At the time we also had a lot of drama and reports regarding macro users spamming skills at an abnormal rate. Finally, I decided to give this anti-cheat shield a trial to see if ran well with the server.
 
While Gepard shield has proven to be VERY hard to by-pass and VERY effective in ridding the server of macro users and bots, we have also noticed the consequences of this shield. In less than 1 year our "users online" has dropped by about 40%, I do have to add though that the number of online players has drastically reduced because the population of merchants has dropped by 300%~. (We went from 600-700 merchants to 100-250) We attribute the drop in merchants to the addition of the new vending system, as well as reduced amount of bots selling miscellaneous items. 
 
 

 
TL;DR
We have actually heard from many players that they quit because of Gepard Shield and I some do not join because of Gepard Shield. So obviously we had to look into it...

 

We conducted some research, asked players around and learned that a lot of players depend on macros to compete with other players in PvP. People with lower ping would always spam faster than people with high ping, but the macros helped to close the gap. Other players admitted that spamming F keys hundreds of times to kill a player was tiring and not as enjoyable as it should be.

 
Taking everything into consideration, I am letting the community decide whether they think it's best to enable Macros so that everyone can use them on the server. Bots would still be illegal, this is only about macro and skill spamming 3rd party programs.
 
 
You can be honest here, we all want what is best for the server. You do not have to be afraid of getting banned for admitting to using 3rd party programs. You don't have to post with your main account if you don't want to, but please don't sabotage the poll with alt accounts.

 

if you want an HONEST answer you should ask them to reply via support ticket since most of dRO community is HYPOCRITE. if you defended the Macro you will get bashed by some "Pro Legit"

 

the smartest thing to do replying here is to create a dummy and point the pros and cons about this poll

 

ok then let me ride on this "Honest Hyprocrite Thread" thingy. i used macro back then, i got ban from it, anyone else use it , any pvp player know when someone is using macro or not, theres no such thing as Low Ping or USA/CANADA/MALAYSIA/PH ISP there is only macro or not

 

August 26, 2016 6:00:00am since the Gepard implemented, after the implementation, does anyone got ban from macro? NO one got ban again, but jon are you open to the posibility that people already bypass gepard? the moment gepard implemented you guys become blinded by the idea of "All Players now is legit since dRO has Anti-Hack Shield", but if you see players everyday you can tell if they are macro or not, and im pretty sure you see it everyday coz i see it everyday. 

 

ya, sadly the reason why dRO have less population is due to implementation of Gepard, so its not about no update or boring, its always about that since dRO is a fast pace environment. remember the era from 2008>16 when u always have 900players 

 

Jon, you know it, you've been in ragnarok business for more than 10 years, (tRO>aRO>sRO>dRO) you know dRO is the most successful server you create, let me tell you something then

 

"  If this what it takes to make your server Alive then DO IT if not then NO "

 

PS1, if this was implement you need to adjust the aftercastdelay of all skill to balanced things out

PS2, macro or not im ok LOL

Edited by Dope Shit

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I used a Macro Recorder to open thousands of Gift Boxes back when Myst Case card still dropped Gift Boxes at 100% chance.

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Pls do remember, if you remove gepard, you will be able to inject 3rd party program AGAIN, not only the macro users. And i dont quite see your point "endurance", so you want to say that " PVP will be alive again coz theres some fcking players whose not tired of spamming skills inside the BG or Arena ". RO is all about endurance itself, dont get me wrong but its kinda unfair for the legit players to deal with kind of shiet ingame. And i dont say RO is an old game and i nvr reason this shit out why it decreases the population in dro.

As you can see, dro, its regaining its former glory already. Look how many newbies are playing now.

dRO starts without gepard shield thats why it nests players with 3rd pt program. Now they put gepard and voila cheaters are gone, why? Coz they cant compete fair and square. Now all i want to know, why do you want it to remove? Im not quite satisfied with your answer

 

 

 

While Gepard shield has proven to be VERY hard to by-pass and VERY effective in ridding the server of macro users and bots, we have also noticed the consequences of this shield. In less than 1 year our "users online" has dropped by about 40%, I do have to add though that the number of online players has drastically reduced because the population of merchants has dropped by 300%~. (We went from 600-700 merchants to 100-250) We attribute the drop in merchants to the addition of the new vending system, as well as reduced amount of bots selling miscellaneous items. 

 

THE RESEARCH SAYS IT ALL.

I said, im still not quite satisfied with the answer why, thats why im still lurking reading about the others comments and pls stop saying " The Research says it all "

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By enabling macros, some players will QQ, some will quit. That legit gameplay that most of us were looking for would no longer exist, then with that, the population takes a nice turn down, but at the same time, old players who thrive in macros will come back, then that's when the balance patches comes in. Skills will get nerfed, remember your 70~80k sharpshooting? BAM! Nerfed. Dmg nerfs, HARD skill delays will be added, people will quit again. Etc etc etc.. 

 

tl;dr ; RO is a dying game, people will quit regardless. Macro or no macro. So why not keep the game as "legit" as it can get? 

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If you enable macros, then I'm guessing you have plans to set hard/fixed delays on EVERYTHING.
That's the only logical conclusion that popped up in my mind.

I certainly am not a fan of macro enabled and don't want to go up against 2 or 3 macro Rangers spamming Sharpshooting at me and my party all day but if it helps the server grow and come back to its high population, then eh, that's that.

I also think people just aren't using old tricks like /q1 and /q2 to make it easier to spam certain skills or swap fast, it could also be that they're not utilizing the LEGIT "Macro" tab they can configure in their BM/Shortcut Settings (3rd tab in the BM/Shortcut Settings from pressing ESC)

 

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To be honest, I'd like to have a macro for a single use: opening dem boxes. XD

I'm torn between the two sides, honestly; I won't quit nor if macros are allowed again, nor if it stays like it is. I don't think macro is something needed on the server, but it surely helps out in a few situations.

While I'm fine with having to spam skills manually, it does get tiring and ping issues disrupt spamming a lot, so I'd like to use macros every now and then. But that's only when I'm forced to spam continuously for a few minutes. And there's the boxes opening thing I mentioned haha.

On the other side, there are people who have no connection issues and who only uses macro instead of trying to spam manually, because of laziness.

 

Oh yea, and of course skills CDs would need to be balanced. Not that I can say much on this part, but at least I know it's needed. Lol

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Putting FIXED DELAY doesn't fix it, because players want to spam fast. Reducing the damage is better IMO ( If macro becomes legal ). Ex. Reduction of Bolt damage, lets say about 30% - 40% ( Since you can use macro )

 

Why legalize macro if you're gonna put FIXED DELAY.

Edited by Dicaearchus

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Putting FIXED DELAY doesn't fix it, because players want to spam fast. Reducing the damage is better IMO ( If macro becomes legal ). Ex. Reduction of Bolt damage, lets say about 30% - 40% ( Since you can use macro )

image.jpg

 

Of course people want to spam fast. Why else would they use macro? What else is macro for? It doesn't mean it makes sense to give them bolt speed FO spam and shit. Have you seen what stunlock does to you? 

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Putting FIXED DELAY doesn't fix it, because players want to spam fast. Reducing the damage is better IMO ( If macro becomes legal ). Ex. Reduction of Bolt damage, lets say about 30% - 40% ( Since you can use macro )

 

Why legalize macro if you're gonna put FIXED DELAY.

Yeah but you gotta put a line between BEYOND retarded macro spam and acceptable macro spam. 

 

Imagine a Sura who FO's as fast as a Double Casted Fire Bolt. How about an Arch Bishop who spams Kyrie Eleison with a 100% uptime? 

 

You gotta think about these things if the server is moving towards macro-enabled game play.

 

Damage nerfs are going to be needed, but so are fixed/hard delays on literally almost EVERYTHING.

 

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