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HaZe

Anonymous Poll About Gepard Shield

  

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Question

Your votes in this poll are completely anonymous even to the staff!

 

This is a serious question that I want you all to truly answer and discuss. 

 

As many as you know, DreamerRO has been running since 2008. Since then I always tried to avoid implementing anti-cheat shields into the server because I had seen and experienced the effect of such shields on servers that installed them. I always noticed population drops on the servers that installed it but I always attributed it to the removal of bots and cheaters. (they were usually by passed quite easily too!)
 
 
 Fast forward to 2016, we looked into a very promising anti-cheat shields which seemed to be very hard to by-pass. At the time we also had a lot of drama and reports regarding macro users spamming skills at an abnormal rate. Finally, I decided to give this anti-cheat shield a trial to see if ran well with the server.
 
While Gepard shield has proven to be VERY hard to by-pass and VERY effective in ridding the server of macro users and bots, we have also noticed the consequences of this shield. In less than 1 year our "users online" has dropped by about 40%, I do have to add though that the number of online players has drastically reduced because the population of merchants has dropped by 300%~. (We went from 600-700 merchants to 100-250) We attribute the drop in merchants to the addition of the new vending system, as well as reduced amount of bots selling miscellaneous items. 
 
 

 
TL;DR
We have actually heard from many players that they quit because of Gepard Shield and I some do not join because of Gepard Shield. So obviously we had to look into it...

We conducted some research, asked players around and learned that a lot of players depend on macros to compete with other players in PvP. People with lower ping would always spam faster than people with high ping, but the macros helped to close the gap. Other players admitted that spamming F keys hundreds of times to kill a player was tiring and not as enjoyable as it should be.
 
Taking everything into consideration, I am letting the community decide whether they think it's best to enable Macros so that everyone can use them on the server. Bots would still be illegal, this is only about macro and skill spamming 3rd party programs.
 
 
You can be honest here, we all want what is best for the server. You do not have to be afraid of getting banned for admitting to using 3rd party programs. You don't have to post with your main account if you don't want to, but please don't sabotage the poll with alt accounts.

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123 answers to this question

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I'm just curious if a lot of the people who are defending the use of macros are aware of how much work will need to be done with class balancing once/if they return?  There's going to be countless nerfs, and eventually hard delays on skills.  Again, not trying to sound like an arrogant prick, but I've seen it all when it comes to all the different ways servers have died.  A handful of said servers have had macro use enabled, and these are the types of hindrances that had to occur to balance the classes because of it.  The end result was a lot of enraged players because their class was nerfed or in some cases, completely neutered.

 

Now, why is that a problem?

- Countless hours that could have been spent on other things is now being spent backtracking over the classes to re-balance around macro users.  On a server that's (in my opinion) already suffering from class balance gaps (again, I'm not saying there hasn't been work done, there clearly has), is this really such a grand idea?

- After the above occurs, where are the legit players left standing (yes, there are legit players on the server who have never needed a macro).  They'll have no choice but to eventually submit and give into doing/using something that they either don't want to do/use or condemn just to keep up with their macro-using counterparts.  Where's the dignity here?

 

At the end of the day, I recognise that my opinion probably doesn't matter much... Whether it be because I'm not a dinosaur/respected old player like some other members or not, I don't really care to tell you the truth; take your superiority complex somewhere else (if I had a dollar for every community I've run into with this issue, I'd be rich; noting I've been guilty of it myself at one point).  I know what I know, and after all the servers I've played over the years and after all of what I've observed, I'm confident in my knowledge.  However, with a server this size the determining factor that will sway HaZe's course of action will obviously be, as I sometimes like to say, "for the good of the many, not for the one"; my post is simply food for thought.

 

If the majority of the community is indeed Hell-bent and jumping for joy/climaxing at the thought of having macros, then I'd at least advise monitoring the situation:

+ If a few months pass post Gepard removal and the population increases by quite a margin, it was probably a good decision.

+ If 6 months pass by and the population is not only pre-fall of Rome, but flourishing beyond old DRO, then you know it was a good choice.

~ If the community becomes too divided regarding the outcome, but the population is flourishing, it may be best to consider creating a custom DRO macro with a comprehensive guide for everyone to be on the same playing field at the very least.

- If a few months pass by post Gepard removal and there's no change in population and a lot of unrest, you'll know what to do, and other avenues will need to be walked in order to help the server.

* Regardless of if macros are embraced or not, I at least hope that a comprehensive guide will be created to allow those who have never used it to use it effectively.

 

There's a good chance HaZe has been pondering in circles thinking of the potential outcomes already considering the thought and validity in his replies to the thread thus far, but I'm just throwing it out there.

Edited by Levias

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From the way this thread is going, it looks like high time to quit my Sorcerer. God knows how many thinks it's an OP class already, and be sure of many incoming nerfs to "balance" an "OP" class.

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I guess desperate times calls for desperate measures huh. SMH.

 

Please haze, before you even consider legalizing macros, try to make the server less of a hassle to play. 

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~ If the community becomes too divided regarding the outcome, but the population is flourishing, it may be best to consider creating a custom DRO macro with a comprehensive guide for everyone to be on the same playing field at the very least.

 

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Enabling macros and implementing suggestions are not equally exclusive choices. It's not like we plan on simply enabling macros and then sit back and expect the community to magically grow back to 800~1,000 online.  

 

I mean, ever since gepard we have implemented a wide range of suggestions going from newbie content, medium and veteran content, as well as skill fixes and overall betterment updates. Still, the server didn't grow even when all shops got rotated and new end-game items were introduced..

 

Notice we didn't ask in the poll if people think Gepard is one of the main reasons for the sever population drop..because we all know that is a fact, not an assumption or opinion.

 

The optimal solution would be to enable macros (automation of keyboard and mouse) while still keeping bots, wpe, rcx, nodelay sprite modifications, dll injections disabled.  We don't want a server filled with bots and cheaters, but we do see the concern of many people not being able to compete due to various reasons and/or getting bored of the legit gameplay. It is also undeniable that macros do help close the gap between the less skilled and the more skilled players, and if that is something that high rate players seem to be looking at then we have to take it into consideration.

 

There is no easy or hard choice.

 

If macros were to be enabled we would then have to follow up with rule changes, skill balancing and even in-game occasional changes to ensure macros can't be overly abused. 

 

Whether we enable macros or keep them disabled, we will still need to follow up with the implementation of the suggestions mentioned above. We would still need to think of skill balancing modifications to make the PvP environment  healthier. We would still need to think of and implement new features and items to keep the server interesting.

 

Implementing a bunch of new things and balancing skills alone will not increase of population. We have already been doing that for the last 8 months and the population still declined.

 

Ultimately the best solution would be a combination of both suggested solutions. Allow emulation of keyboard and mouse(macros) while at the same time implementing suggested/official new content, improving current content and brain storming new content.

 

The legalization of of macros is what is in discussion here, not necessarily the entire removal of Gepard shield.

 

Below I leave you the product description of Gepard Shield:

 

 

 

 

Basic functionality: 
  • - check integrity memory of code section(game EXE)
  • - check integrity of game exe
  • - check integrity of dll in the client folder
  • - encryption of network packets with dynamic key
  • - protection against dll injection
  • - protection against WPE/RPE/OpenKore
  • - opportunity to get unique ID of player(based not on MAC)
  • - opportunity to block player by unique ID
  • - prevent run on virtual machines
  • - search launched cheat software(OllyDbg, Cheat Engine, PotND, meth4u, xRag, xLike and other)
  • - works with the last version of RCX
  • - generates crash log
Additional functionality:
  • - prevent emulation of mouse and keyboard
  • - prevent use nodelay
  • - prevent redefinition resouces in grf
 

 

 

 

As you can see, the "emulation of mouse and keyboard" is an additional functionality that CAN be removed while keeping more dangerous 3rd party programs disabled. We would still be able to use Gepard Ban to block offenders, Bots and WPE would still be blocked out and zero delay sprites would still be blocked by Gepard shield.

 

Not only that, but we still have in-game protection via Adelays that helps control the spam of most skills. (Yes, we know not all but just remember it's there for additional protection).

 

I am the last person that would like to see his server full of players using "Cheat programs" but I am also the last person that wants to see this server fall. I am the first one to admit I was wrong in thinking a legit server would attract more people and that the cheaters would stay and play normally. It did not work as we expected. Many tried, many couldn't compete and many quit. As a result, the legit players that are left are bored and have nobody to kill and are starting to quit as well...and it's not for lack of new content.

 

Like others have said, times change and the game changes. A lot of people have become accustomed to using macros to play Ragnarok..especially on servers with -100% delay reduction and high max levels.

 

 

 

TL;DR

 

A combination of macros disabled and implementation of new content seems like the way to go. Either solution on its own will not be enough to revive the population of the server.

You've made your point; I am now swayed and agree with you. 

 

I've also read Levias' post above and he makes valid points aswell.

 

Let's see how this goes and hopefully we can get to a boost in population and activity.

 

 

 

 

Edited by notpro

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I guess desperate times calls for desperate measures huh. SMH.

 

Please haze, before you even consider legalizing macros, try to make the server less of a hassle to play. 

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I was active in pvp and here in DRO way back 2010-2013... That time during wars we really don't care if they're using macro.. the fact that they lose is still the same.. legit or not.. ( I'm not updated anymore about DRO..sometimes I try to visit my old friends and it looks dead imo).. 

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trust me if gonna reenable macro = no need to change on the delay on some skills like bolt, aoe wl, other or lower down damage of bolts/ wl aoe/ etc. wl aoe is weak if you understand how to nerf it... it also only flinches ab at war on most cases if ab know how to play. wls also needs flinch to be able to ganba > aoeaoeoaoe. if everyone is ignoring wl at war = ganba + aoe = very slow. ganba + aoe vs brainless lper = the sorc will win the battle coz ganba isnt 100% success chance.

 

enabling macro or not i 100% believe that SS splash damage should be removed. keep the damage on SS but make it single target. it wont kill the job considering they have 75% demi redux w/ eweap on + arrow storm has splash damage also ss is still good if this is implemented. ranger doesnt need to get flinched to spam ss like crazy + they have aoe lex + aoe status + tanky as wl/sorc (considering no ecoat).. also more tanky than gene since gene eweap is 8% dhr.

Edited by ajisphere

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trust me if gonna reenable macro = no need to change on the delay on some skills like bolt, aoe wl, other or lower down damage of bolts/ wl aoe/ etc. wl aoe is weak if you understand how to nerf it... it also only flinches ab at war on most cases if ab know how to play. wls also needs flinch to be able to ganba > aoeaoeoaoe. if everyone is ignoring wl at war = ganba + aoe = very slow. ganba + aoe vs brainless lper = the sorc will win the battle coz ganba isnt 100% success chance.

 

enabling macro or not i 100% believe that SS splash damage should be removed. keep the damage on SS but make it single target. it wont kill the job considering they have 75% demi redux w/ eweap on + arrow storm has splash damage also ss is still good if this is implemented. ranger doesnt need to get flinched to spam ss like crazy + they have aoe lex + aoe status + tanky as wl/sorc (considering no ecoat).. also more tanky than gene since gene eweap is 8% dhr.

true!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SS opopopooooppppppppppppp

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i did told you haze in your FB page that the server will die cuz of that gepard ahahahah now what :) population sucks now :( sad and also who dafaq will play just to make their fingers numb lul no way /gg
#bringdownGepardo #macronomore #macrois<3

Edited by hakoojin

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i did told you haze in your FB page that the server will die cuz of that gepard ahahahah now what :) population sucks now :( sad and also who dafaq will play just to make their fingers numb lul no way /gg

#bringdownGepardo #macronomore #macrois<3

Better don't play dRO then.

#justmy2cents

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i did told you haze in your FB page that the server will die cuz of that gepard ahahahah now what :) population sucks now :( sad and also who dafaq will play just to make their fingers numb lul no way /gg

#bringdownGepardo #macronomore #macrois<3

Your girlfriend must not be happy how easily your fingers get numb.

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^

If thats the final decision, then I guess it would be useless to keep arguing. I am against of enabling macro because the server has always been against cheating and seeing it to be brought back after all what happened (that includes my old account) is just sad. I just hope the new updates would be more about covering up whats certain classes are lacking and not boosting the jobs that are currently doing "okay". It isn't that hard to adapt, its just things are getting complicated sometimes.

 

After all these responses, I am still willing to give my honest suggestions to help with the new updates. +1

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Well, Lets just see How it will turns out. And pls do take note, remove the "Guide on how to report a Macro" on the report section. Kinda felt sad on how you fought things should be and in the end... lawl.. For now, We'll just observe this macro again.

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Ughh, he succumbed to pressure. Get ready to see some immortal ABs, Non-stop Acid demos, Quadruple Strike (Ranger's DS), etc. etc.

 

P.S. Respect and Credibility definitely out the door. 

 

SMH.

Edited by oinkoink

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Ughh, he succumbed to pressure. Get ready to see some immortal ABs, Non-stop Acid demos, Quadruple Strike (Ranger's DS), etc. etc.

 

P.S. Respect and Credibility definitely out the door. 

 

SMH.

Exactly my thoughts. This should have been thoroughly discussed instead of a poll since most players who voted clearly had no idea how it was before when we had it and how it is going to affect the current PvP.

 

Seeing the last response from haze means its already final. Not really trying to bring down every decision they make, it's just most of important ones comeo as surprise just like gepard and this.

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My thoughts about the update:

                                                              

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I hope the new content was the one i remembered and loved really much LOL

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This is the Best decision you've made Haze +1,000,000....maybe for others this is the worst Decision he made, but believe me its not about playing Fair or whatever anymore, its all about Bringing back  the Server on what its used to be,....yah you can play Fair but who will you play with??... 30~50% of the players quit after he remove the Macro....and from the Past Years(2008~2016) the server have Macro which is Illegal that time whats more if its legal?.. and guess what the server never goes down even we have Macro that time... so for me its a great decision.......Just my opinion:)

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