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Xileria

Magic and Physical formula using different elemental table?

Question

This post is long and might be confusing as it contains some usable information with the current mechanics.
 
First of all let me introduce to everyone the PRE RENEWAL and RENEWAL ELEMENTAL TABLES.
 
WSYyeDn.png
 
Yes, guys, pre renewal and renewal has different elemental table.
 
Now lets test and find out which table our server is following...
 
Normal attack test:
 
Neutral vs neutral | Ghost vs neutral (weapon) | Ghost vs Ghost |
 


Neutral (no element armor ) vs no (element weapon)
q8sw0qg.png
 
Ghost armor vs neutral (non elemental weapon)
 
QF9B8Sy.png
 
R5AYtA6.png
 


 
If you check the screenshot, you will notice that after changing to ghost armor the warlocks normal attack damage immediately turn from 1k+ into 100+ attack only. That alone is a weird behavior since in pre renewal ghost armor should only reduce an attack to upto 75% which is around 250+ attack ignoring the other defense formula computation.
 
But that isn't the weirdest thing here. Ghost vs ghost element in both pre renewal and renewal table shows that it should result to 125% attack. However it wasn't the case because if you will look back again to neutral vs neutral, ghost attack against ghost armor should deal upto 1250 damage each.
 
Eitherway, I did another test against ghost armor by enchanting my weapon with water property and the result is 500+ damage.
 
Ghost armor vs Water Element
 


7bOWPjI.png
 


 
Conclusion your normal attack damage will be halve if the enemy is wearing ghost armor. This behavior is probably the same for normal attack against ghost element monsters. I don't know if this is normal behavior for renewal but it's weird.
 
I came into this conclusion because I tested other armor and they don't behave the same.
 
Example: Water armor  vs neutral attack and water armor  vs ghost attack.
 


 
g1q2j8G.png
 
 
TbEMKz4.png
 


 
Anyway moving forward.
 
Now lets go to skills.
 
Physical Skill Test: Sacrifice
 


ZFXgrgC.png
 
8EfNaen.png
 


 
As for sacrifice it's easy to figure out that the skill damage against ghost armor is the same as pre renewal. From 330,300 damage it was reduce to 82575 damage only which is 25% damage from original.
 
330,300 x 25% = 82575.
 
Conclusion: Sacrifice damages follow pre renewal table. ( neutral skill attack deals 25% damage only on pre renewal while in renewal neutral attack is supposed to deal 70% damage against ghost )
 
Next skill Test: Napalm Vulcan vs ghost armor and vs neutral

 

For this test we will use ghost armor first because it's easier to explain that way.

I used RECOGNIZED SPELL to make sure that the damage is maximize for testing purpose.

 

 

 

 

968jsjk.png

 

KKwlpob.png

 

 

 

 

If you noticed in the screenshot. Using ghost armor napalm vulcan deals almost 2x damage compare to when it was used against neutral or non elemental armor.  However that's actually a wrong way to look at it. The problem with this skill is because it is following the RENEWAL ELEMENTAL TABLE.

 

Let me explain.

 

In renewal and pre renewal ghost element vs ghost armor as I've mention earlier is supposed to deal 125% damage.

 

So taking the damage result, 11245 is 125% damage.

 

11245/1.25 = 8996

 

8996 is the 100% damage.

 

Now 8996 x .70 = 6297.2

 

6297 is the 70% damage. ( I do this so it's easier to explain, I hope those who are bad in numbers will still get it.)

 

Now if you will look again in renewal table you will notice that ghost element is supposed to deal 70% of it's damage to neutral.

 

CONCLUSION:

In short this computation is the evidence which shows that Napalm vulcan and most magic skill are following the RENEWAL TABLE.

 

Now why did I said other magic skill? I am too lazy to test other skills but another example is heavens drive.

 

In Pre renewal Table Earth element attack vs Earth Element armor will result to 100% damage, but in RENEWAL Earth element vs Earth armor will only result to 25% damage.

 

 

 

 

OK5ediS.png

 

 

ydiopT7.png

 

 

 

 

Here it is pretty clear that Heaven's drive is following RENEWAL Element table because 12894 damage is reduced to 3225 damage after the RG switch to Earth armor. 3225 is around 25% damage only.

 

I posted the long explanation so some people who might need the analysis can use them. Example You can use earth armor to reduce dramatically the damage of cucool in caspen atm. Also some should realize by now why napalm hit hards.

Edited by Xileria

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HaZe made some changes to Ghost armor at the start of renewal IIRC

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I see so that's the reason why it halves the normal attack damage.

 

As for mage magic I think it shouldn't behave on RENEWAL TABLE. I think that's the reason why magic hurts too much, other than the insane bonuses, napalm vulcan and other ghost elements skills can't be reduced properly by neutral armor.

 

Also again other skills like spiral pierce is behaving like Acid demo, dealing very low amount of damage when not enchanted with any element and the target is using ghost armor.

 

Perhaps the only solution for AD is making it elemental too rofl.

Edited by Xileria

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With the new balancing patch that happened (matk -15%, napalm -45%), warlock in 2nd job pvp is in such a stupid spot right now. Every skill of warlock in 2nd job pvp is dealing too low damage (except for NSC) because of the unreasonable nerfs done. The only reason why warlock seemed so OP is because of the card "NSC" in renewal ignoring every element. In renewal it ignores every element including neutral element; whereas in pre-re, napalm vulcan w/ NSC dealt low damage against neutral, mediocre damage against other elements, and godly damage against ghost element. 

 

Please stop doing unreasonable nerfs to magic attack. Bring back the nerfs done to magic attack and wl's skills (?). disable warlock's naught sieger card because it was the only problem of renewal since elemental table is shit. Right now, the only play style available for WL in 2nds is to permanently equip NSC and YOLO napalm. Against a knowledgable PVP player, every AOE skill deals super shit damage especially with the current change log. The only reason why WL AOE seemed so OP was because 90-95% of pvpers don't know how to nerf elements (or even use asprika). 

 

Please check these SS shown below:

exUw0xO.jpg1st SS is WL's meteor (lvl 4 eweap, +10 ewand, pure matk). I've dealt 3.6k -> 4.2k meteor against a genetic that is using 75% demi resist and not using ring of flame lord or even a fire resist potion. The gene is using undead scroll + holy scroll + cold resist potion.  

 

2nd SS (same gene consumables + equipment except for stunic). 

dQghhp1.jpg

Meteor damage ranged from 800 -> 1K dmg + this isn't even fire resist potion. 

 

Imagine at war when almost 80% of people are buffed by a priest. Every WL AOE would be super weak against a player who knows how to use asprika + consumables. Please bring back the nerf done to matk and to some skills(?). Disable naught completely or at least bring back pre-re's elemental table. -_-  Also just imagine the damage of my aoes in my SS if gene was using GTB. 

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With the new balancing patch that happened (matk -15%, napalm -45%), warlock in 2nd job pvp is in such a stupid spot right now. Every skill of warlock in 2nd job pvp is dealing too low damage (except for NSC) because of the unreasonable nerfs done. The only reason why warlock seemed so OP is because of the card "NSC" in renewal ignoring every element. In renewal it ignores every element including neutral element; whereas in pre-re, napalm vulcan w/ NSC dealt low damage against neutral, mediocre damage against other elements, and godly damage against ghost element. 

 

Please stop doing unreasonable nerfs to magic attack. Bring back the nerfs done to magic attack and wl's skills (?). disable warlock's naught sieger card because it was the only problem of renewal since elemental table is shit. Right now, the only play style available for WL in 2nds is to permanently equip NSC and YOLO napalm. Against a knowledgable PVP player, every AOE skill deals super shit damage especially with the current change log. The only reason why WL AOE seemed so OP was because 90-95% of pvpers don't know how to nerf elements (or even use asprika). 

 

Please check these SS shown below:

exUw0xO.jpg1st SS is WL's meteor (lvl 4 eweap, +10 ewand, pure matk). I've dealt 3.6k -> 4.2k meteor against a genetic that is using 75% demi resist and not using ring of flame lord or even a fire resist potion. The gene is using undead scroll + holy scroll + cold resist potion.  

 

2nd SS (same gene consumables + equipment except for stunic). 

dQghhp1.jpg

Meteor damage ranged from 800 -> 1K dmg + this isn't even fire resist potion. 

 

Imagine at war when almost 80% of people are buffed by a priest. Every WL AOE would be super weak against a player who knows how to use asprika + consumables. Please bring back the nerf done to matk and to some skills(?). Disable naught completely or at least bring back pre-re's elemental table. -_-  Also just imagine the damage of my aoes in my SS if gene was using GTB. 

+1

Agreed the only OP thing is NSc card, no need to reduce MATK and napalm (again)

Sorry for OOT btw~

But Xileria is here cheers!!!

Edited by Aan

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I would honestly prefer if the renewal table is simply fixed so neutral armor won't receive 45% additional damage from ghost attack compared to pre renewal and a card fixes too since there are too many card that boost specific type of magic in the renewal server.

 

The non customized naght sieger card in renewal only gives 30% bonus on ghost magic.

 

The matk formula reduction affects not only affect a specific class but other class magical attack based skill of other classes that work just fine. :/

 

On another note, another problem we have on magic skill is the fact that we can no longer utilize long range reduction against them unlike in pre renewal so some build just do not work the same anymore.

Edited by Xileria

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I agree to them.. Also just rather that nerfing an already good stat, why just boost that haven't recieve any boost and those that were nerf.. The reason why WL seems OP not just because element, damage and stats issue but rather most player would prefer using Jobs that aren't that much of a pain and can be used every time and also WL is the job that never had a problem at renewal.. Remember Sniper before are dead but because they fixed the damage many players played it again.. And the GS I already saw GS before but after their damage was nerfed nobody tried GS again, the reason was it has too much damage but isn't that the reason for GS and their dowmside is that they are frigile, well their damage decrease but didn't recieve at boost at HPor stat that would improve lasting long on a battle which would have been a good trade for the damage reduce..

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