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ZeroGravity

Ninja Suggestions

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Hi for the past few days i've been spamming ninja and here are my observations.

1. Ninja Magic damage is really good, but once nerfed, ninja are useless because of their physical damage currently.

2. The skills buffed by elite ninja weaps are close to being non usable.

3. Shadow trampling not working as intended.

 

Here are my suggestions for each item

1. If fuma shuriken can be fixed or changed, I think it will make ninja not only magic dependent. Their damage rely on 3 major element, fire water and wind. It's easy to nerf these 3 skills and once nerfed, ninja almost close to useless. Unlike WL which if you nerf their 4 major elements, they have napalm (ghost element) I think comet is also counted as neutral (Not sure). For sorc, the case is the same, bolts are OP, but if nerfed they can still use soul strike (Ghost Element). For ninja once nerfed, its close to useless. Ofcourse for wars, the tactic is to switch target, but it won't work for 1 v 1. (I just want to hear opinions on this)

 

2. The skills for both physical weap and magic weap are close to useless.

a. For physical, throw fuma shuriken is really not valuable right now. And I think many also suggest that it be reverted back to how it is, not AOE. The throw kunai is also mediocre damage. For this part, i think the weap is not the problem, but the skill itself which used to work, but now doesn't.

b. For magic, the ice skill that is buffed is close to useless. I compared damage of blaze shield and this skill, even with the 2 elite weaps (Buffs) the damage is definitely lower than blaze shield. In short, the skill being buff is unusable. Im not asking to make it like flaming petals or wind blade because the damage of those are already good, but maybe make it freezing sphere or blaze shield? This one I leave up to the good hands of Sadie.

 

3. In connection with my first post, I want to close that thread and put it here so that ninja discussion would be limited to one thread and for easier reference to our admin/dev team. Shadow trampling works in other arena but not as intended. I have tried @duel function and it works. However, I tested it both on HA and 3rd Jobs, both works simply like a box of gloom. I think making this skill not work is unfair for ninja because it is just a 2nd skill. I think it shouldn't be nerfed or its effects should work as originally intended. 

a. I am aware of the argument that in HA arena it could be fair because it can be treated as 3rd jobs. However, this matter is already settled. It's just a 2nd job skill same with rebellion skills.

b. I am also aware of the argument that not all 2nd job skills is working like Ice Wall and Grand Cross. I would like to know if the reasoning for changing the effect of this skill is close or similar to the reasons for ice wall and grandcross. If not, I think its better to allow shadow trampling as originally intended for HA.

c. For 3rd Jobs, I think it is self explanatory, in 3rd job's arena even all 3rd job skills are allowed so I don't see any reason not to allow its effects as intended.

 

Additional Inquiry:

Is empty shadow really supposed not to work vs Shadow Form?

Can we also have alternative Job Sprite for Ninja? Most costumes are unusable for ninja because of its broad shoulders. Hope it can be.

Edited by ZeroGravity

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Your suggestion too much for ninja. All your suggestion not fit for PVP Recent. Ninja can use 2 weapon now, with Shadow Jump quite anoying so dont make something become Overpower . Peace

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May i suggest something for you too? coz i keep seeing you suggest changes about how certain jobs or skills are under powered or useless. 

1. Really learn how to play the job which you want to main and go to PVP on. 

2. Practice playing it for atleast 6 months, mastering all it's build. skills utilization, etc...

3. GET GOOD.

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4 hours ago, JIROU said:

Your suggestion too much for ninja. All your suggestion not fit for PVP Recent. Ninja can use 2 weapon now, with Shadow Jump quite anoying so dont make something become Overpower . Peace

Hi Thanks for this response, yup ninja can use 2 weaps and it costs a lot too. If you do that u get easily pawned by magic classes. Also Sacri. Btw the suggestion is a general suggestion. Some may be accepted and not, which is why i said all what I experienced ingame. This thread is a mixture of inquiries and suggestions. 

3 hours ago, GhostAlpha1 said:

Ninja is an OP char in pvp specialy magic build... 

Thanks for this response. Yah I agree magic Ninja has a lot of damage when it comes to WAR, but this is not good for those who wants to do physical job too for ninja. Also Magic ninja not good in DA or 1 v 1. It only has 3 elements which is why it's very easy to nerf. 

3 hours ago, oinkoink said:

May i suggest something for you too? coz i keep seeing you suggest changes about how certain jobs or skills are under powered or useless. 

1. Really learn how to play the job which you want to main and go to PVP on. 

2. Practice playing it for atleast 6 months, mastering all it's build. skills utilization, etc...

3. GET GOOD.

Hi Oinkoink, thank you for your response. Yes I am currently maining ninja and I go to PVP a lot. I practice playing it, but 6 months is not really needed especially for a lvl 4 char. For the get good part, this is subjective. For me I am not good, but you do not have to be good to observe things which are obvious. 

 

Like I said, the things mentioned above are my experiences:

1. I never said magic is bad. The suggestion is actually to make physical ninja viable so that not all ninjas would be magic type. Also my reasoning for this is not for wars, it's more for 1 v 1s. As I mentioned, the 3 elements that magic ninja use are easy to nerf. Ninja Magic damage is really good, but as stated, nothing in this game has no counter. The counter to this is nerfing the elements. If the element is nerfed, how does a ninja then fight in a 1 v 1 scenario. For WLs, there's no problem because they have ghost damage and even neutral element. They wont be purely bad in 1 v 1 even with elemental resist builds. They also have strips and lots of controls (Status). This is not the case for ninja. I hope you understand this point.

 

2. My suggestion for the weap is because why even put it there when the skill itself wont work? As I've mentioned Blaze Shield has higher damage than a 2 weap falling ice (90% increase damage). What is now the purpose of this skill? Like I said, I did not suggest to make the skill in the weap the single  target ones because they are already strong. I suggested blaze shield because that skill is not easy to hit, but at least usable. Also, for physical you can ask any ninja that physical ninjas are really bad right now. I hope you have an open mind for this because comparing it with other jobs, this char has bad weap because the skills in both weap are not usuable. Example is WL (MS is usuable). Sorc (HD is usuable) SN(Bolts are usuable). Im only comparing it to magic class now because its the only viable build, but as I mentioned, I want physical ninja to exist and it should because it has an elite weap for physical.

 

3. For the shadow trampling suggestion, please do read that I said in HA i suggest it work as intended, BUT if this is really the intention of the admin then we have to leave it that way. However, 3rd Jobs is a different case. All skills should be available in this arena, so does shadow trampling.

 

Finally I would like to point out to you too that I haven't suggested any class change since before. My suggestion is about the eerie card and shadow trampling. Other suggestions I had was about the HHH coin and gems tradable. This is the first time I suggested about classes BECAUSE it is something that I see. I do not want ninjas to be Overpowered, but at least make it the skill in the item reasonable and at least make the skill work how it should work (Shadow Trampling). 

 

Anyway thanks so much for these feedbacks, but please also note that suggestions is what can make the server better. It is a suggestion, not a command. I do not mind if it is rejected or accepted, but at least we have to try to point out things for our admin to see. This is part of my commitment to help the server. I am sorry if you think I am flooding the suggestion area, but I really think I have to point this things out to the community to at least give everyone a view of how ninja is. Learning should never stop and suggestions are part of the learning process of everyone so I hope you understand. Thank you!

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15 hours ago, ZeroGravity said:

Hi Thanks for this response, yup ninja can use 2 weaps and it costs a lot too. If you do that u get easily pawned by magic classes. Also Sacri. Btw the suggestion is a general suggestion. Some may be accepted and not, which is why i said all what I experienced ingame. This thread is a mixture of inquiries and suggestions. 

Thanks for this response. Yah I agree magic Ninja has a lot of damage when it comes to WAR, but this is not good for those who wants to do physical job too for ninja. Also Magic ninja not good in DA or 1 v 1. It only has 3 elements which is why it's very easy to nerf. 

Hi Oinkoink, thank you for your response. Yes I am currently maining ninja and I go to PVP a lot. I practice playing it, but 6 months is not really needed especially for a lvl 4 char. For the get good part, this is subjective. For me I am not good, but you do not have to be good to observe things which are obvious. 

 

Like I said, the things mentioned above are my experiences:

1. I never said magic is bad. The suggestion is actually to make physical ninja viable so that not all ninjas would be magic type. Also my reasoning for this is not for wars, it's more for 1 v 1s. As I mentioned, the 3 elements that magic ninja use are easy to nerf. Ninja Magic damage is really good, but as stated, nothing in this game has no counter. The counter to this is nerfing the elements. If the element is nerfed, how does a ninja then fight in a 1 v 1 scenario. For WLs, there's no problem because they have ghost damage and even neutral element. They wont be purely bad in 1 v 1 even with elemental resist builds. They also have strips and lots of controls (Status). This is not the case for ninja. I hope you understand this point.

 

2. My suggestion for the weap is because why even put it there when the skill itself wont work? As I've mentioned Blaze Shield has higher damage than a 2 weap falling ice (90% increase damage). What is now the purpose of this skill? Like I said, I did not suggest to make the skill in the weap the single  target ones because they are already strong. I suggested blaze shield because that skill is not easy to hit, but at least usable. Also, for physical you can ask any ninja that physical ninjas are really bad right now. I hope you have an open mind for this because comparing it with other jobs, this char has bad weap because the skills in both weap are not usuable. Example is WL (MS is usuable). Sorc (HD is usuable) SN(Bolts are usuable). Im only comparing it to magic class now because its the only viable build, but as I mentioned, I want physical ninja to exist and it should because it has an elite weap for physical.

 

3. For the shadow trampling suggestion, please do read that I said in HA i suggest it work as intended, BUT if this is really the intention of the admin then we have to leave it that way. However, 3rd Jobs is a different case. All skills should be available in this arena, so does shadow trampling.

 

Finally I would like to point out to you too that I haven't suggested any class change since before. My suggestion is about the eerie card and shadow trampling. Other suggestions I had was about the HHH coin and gems tradable. This is the first time I suggested about classes BECAUSE it is something that I see. I do not want ninjas to be Overpowered, but at least make it the skill in the item reasonable and at least make the skill work how it should work (Shadow Trampling). 

 

Anyway thanks so much for these feedbacks, but please also note that suggestions is what can make the server better. It is a suggestion, not a command. I do not mind if it is rejected or accepted, but at least we have to try to point out things for our admin to see. This is part of my commitment to help the server. I am sorry if you think I am flooding the suggestion area, but I really think I have to point this things out to the community to at least give everyone a view of how ninja is. Learning should never stop and suggestions are part of the learning process of everyone so I hope you understand. Thank you!

have u ever tried dueling ninja in DA or 1or1 you will be surprize how op ninja if u know how to use it 

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15 minutes ago, GhostAlpha1 said:

have u ever tried dueling ninja in DA or 1or1 you will be surprize how op ninja if u know how to use it 

I would not even be posting this if I haven’t tried. Ofcourse I did. 

Anyway try dueling a ninja using a full nerf build and tell me the result. You will see the reason I recommend this. In fact a famous ninja named aniovel made a guide in this forum stating that magic build ninja is no good for 1 v 1 or DA. This is because of  elemental resist. This is why one of my suggestions is to make physical build ninja viable again. It was never in my suggestions to boost any magic damage.

1. Suggestion number 1 is for physical build.

2. Suggestion number 2 is for weaps to make the skill in the elite weap useful, not to exhange the skill with something OP already but replace the skill with something usable.

3. Suggestion 3 is about shadow trampling. As stated this skill is a 2nd job skill hence should work normally, unless there is a compelling reason not to as in the case of ice wall.

 

The suggestion is not to make ninja OP, but to make things work how it should. But thanks for your response. I do hope you understand my suggestion first rather than just thinking its a positive or negative change to ninja. 

 

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Also before thinking I am just biased with ninja class please do note that I disagreed on the HP boost suggestion for ninja class because I understand the essence of the class. For the changes I am recommending, please read my reasons for it and it would not do any good if the only response we would get is 

1. i disagree because ninja is OP without details ; or

2. I agree because ninja is weak, without details too.

hope the future feedback would be more constructive and informative. Thanks.

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I agree. Wanted to upvote your post and recent reply, but can't react anymore for today, lol.

So...

+1 !!

And from what I see is that it basically forces Ninjas to go for the Magic build just to get good. In fact, for other classes too I think, it's as though they direct you to one specific build only.
Which means: less creativity, less fun, everyone's the same.

Also, you already said you tried pvp and stuff, why people can't get it. XD

Edited by liyaperfidious

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17 hours ago, liyaperfidious said:

I agree. Wanted to upvote your post and recent reply, but can't react anymore for today, lol.

So...

+1 !!

And from what I see is that it basically forces Ninjas to go for the Magic build just to get good. In fact, for other classes too I think, it's as though they direct you to one specific build only.
Which means: less creativity, less fun, everyone's the same.

Also, you already said you tried pvp and stuff, why people can't get it. XD

Thanks so much for this response. This is what i was pointing out. There are two weaps for ninja, physical and magic. That is why both should work properly. Im not saying physical should be better, but at least make it viable.

 

We cannot treat ninja similar to wl and sorc because both their weaps are magic focused. In fact I know a lot of old ninja players who likes old ninja build. Now its all magic ninja. Even fictional ninjas(naruto anime) use both magic and physical damage. I think it is the essence of ninja class.

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the main issue with phyiscal ninja i believe are the earth charms. U can get up to 200% more physical damage on skills (with earth property, 180% w/o earth property). Magic damage can be nerfed through elemental resist however physical damage is a different story.

I believe buffing or fixing the physical portion of ninja will completely break the class as players fighting against it will no longer be able to have such counters to it ( maya, erire, magic redx).

Ninjas atm are insanely goodi in GvG fighting in pvp ( if you know what ur doing) and bringing physical ninja up to magic ninja standards will just give ninja more tools on top of what they alrdy have.

I believe the GMs/ PvP consultants are afraid of what a phyiscal ninja can  do to the balance of the class.

 

This is coming from a ninja main btw. 🙂

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1 hour ago, bryan31 said:

the main issue with phyiscal ninja i believe are the earth charms. U can get up to 200% more physical damage on skills (with earth property, 180% w/o earth property). Magic damage can be nerfed through elemental resist however physical damage is a different story.

I believe buffing or fixing the physical portion of ninja will completely break the class as players fighting against it will no longer be able to have such counters to it ( maya, erire, magic redx).

Ninjas atm are insanely goodi in GvG fighting in pvp ( if you know what ur doing) and bringing physical ninja up to magic ninja standards will just give ninja more tools on top of what they alrdy have.

I believe the GMs/ PvP consultants are afraid of what a phyiscal ninja can  do to the balance of the class.

 

This is coming from a ninja main btw. 🙂

Thanks for this and I agree with this. Magic ninja is really good in guild vs guild pvps. However, this suggestion is more for other scenarios such as DA or 1 v 1s. This fact is supported too by a great ninja guide by Aniovel where he stated that magic ninja is really bad on 1 v 1 scenarios. My suggestion is not to make physical ninja stronger than any other class or magic ninja itself, but at least usable.

 

I was able to test physical ninja using your example. The damage of fuma shuriken is not the problem, but how to skill works. 

My suggestion for this aspect is either:

1. To reduce damage of fuma, but make it spammable again like in pre renewal. This will make the skill useful again, at the same time not OP; or

2. To make throw kunai damage higher.

 

My opinion is still physical ninjas should be viable. The suggestion is not to make it as strong as magic or stronger than magic ninja, but just to make it usable again.

 

Edited by ZeroGravity
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Btw I would like people to refer to this suggestion too by other ninja users and see how most people viewed this since 2018 (I wasn't playing at that time yet).

 

This is the link for Aniovel's guide. 

 

 

I am posting these links so that others may be enlightened on how ninja works and why should the changes be made. 

 

For the Physical damage these things must be noted:

1. Even in pre-renewal, fuma isn't broken. Based on Anioviel's guide, the total damage is 3x3 area hence the more target in that area, the damage is lower. It only means that in wars, this would not be the best option. However, it would be good for DA or 1 v 1. (This was my suggestion so that ninja won't be totally extinct in DA or 1 v 1. A magic ninja cannot fight vs full magic resist build classes.)

2. In renewal, Fuma shuriken became totally useless. It is ground target skill hence mostly will not hit at all.

3. Throw Kunai does mediocre damage. I have tested this and based on those 2 links i just posted, it is well supported by ninja users. 

 

Based on these observations, my suggestion will be as mentioned above:

1. Make throw kunai damage higher; or

2. Make throw fuma shuriken work like in pre-renewal. 

 

For the Ninja Weapons, my suggestion is:

1. For magic weap, change the skill into blaze shield (this skill is not OP, its more of just used for cornering an opponent or revealing cloaked enemies).

2. Other options for magic weap changes are lightning jolt, first wind and exploding dragon. (These skills do not deal as much damage as flaming petals, lightning spear of ice or wind blade)

3. For physical weapon, I suggest make damage for throw kunai higher.

4. Other option for physical are dancing petal (2nd Skill). 

NOTE: If my suggestion for physical ninja would be adopted, please disregard my weapon suggestion for Physical Ninja, because I think physical ninja would really be viable again just be adopting the first change without weapon change. But for magic, I really think the skill should be changed because the snow flake skill is just very bad. As mentioned, blaze shield works similarly as snow flake. However, Blaze has a lot more damage than snowflake EVEN if Im using 2 Elite Daggers (which should boost have already boosted the damage by around 80%). I hope this catches the attention of the team.

 

 

For Shadow Trampling, my suggestion is still the same, I ask for the skill to work in HA how it is described, but if there is good reasons not to do so, I will respect the admin decision on this.

 

 

I leave the decision to the admin team. 

Edited by ZeroGravity

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Yknow the sad thing is that Rebellions also have a similar problem. (Revolver being the only option that can be considered "good").

.___.

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