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HaZe

Oboro, Kagerou and Rebellion Skills

Should Oboro/Kagerou & Rebellion skills be DISABLED in 2nd job PvP/WoE/BG Arenas?  

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Why unreasonable? Rg cant use grand cross inside HA and it is one of the best skills of RG think about that. Hahaha and you denying you aren’t RMT?? You got lower HG book of magic in your character right? What are the ingredient making those? I still remember every HG i made cause I work hard for those

Edited by jamieson

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U even shout to the whole server that u can wipe 6-8 members vs 2 coz u can outplayed them with that class its not about

 

how op is that even the nerf comes on it still not on par with any class just jump around then pick another one

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5 minutes ago, caramellmacchiato said:

 

the contrast.

 

but it isn't there yet, is it?

 

point 1 lets the unbalanced skill continue to be taken advantage of and will further kill the HA dynamic whether you're realizing this or not.

after point 2 happen, people actually are encouraged to go pvp and give it a go one more time, because it's suddenly seem fair to join again.

It seems you forgot about patch 2. There was already a nerf. The Nerfing did balance ninja class, which might be arguable and subjective. However, as mentioned, this disable happened right after the nerf. I hope you don’t lose sight of the main points. If these skills should be disabled in ha just because they are concepts from renewal, then all renewal concepts must be disabled in ha, particularly fuma changes which crippled physical ninja.

 

However since renewal concepts apply to HA, then disabling these skills isnt justified or reasonable.

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4 minutes ago, jamieson said:

Why unreasonable? Rg cant use grand cross inside HA and it is one of the best skills of RG think about that. Hahaha and you denying you aren’t RMT?? You got lower HG book of magic in your character right? What are the ingredient making those? I still remember every HG i made cause I work hard for those

 

Read my other comments to know why i think it is unreasonable. For the rg skill you are going out of topic, and I think haze would be in a better position to answer that.

 

Yes I don’t RMT and I donate to the server. Again I won’t stoop down to make personal attacks in this discussion thread. I hope you be more mature.

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I totally remember patch 2, but then Haze:

On 7/16/2019 at 8:15 AM, HaZe said:

Oboro/Kagerou/Rebellion skills are still not balanced

It seems he forgot about patch 2 too.

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3 minutes ago, troy101 said:

U even shout to the whole server that u can wipe 6-8 members vs 2 coz u can outplayed them with that class its not about

 

how op is that even the nerf comes on it still not on par with any class just jump around then pick another one

I dont even know why you are mentioning these things here? Taunting to have pvp doesnt have any relation to balancing. Please stay on the topic.

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2 minutes ago, caramellmacchiato said:

I totally remember patch 2, but then Haze:

It seems he forgot about patch 2 too.

This is why im saying it shouldnt be disabled since the nerf just happened. Let people test it first.

 

BTW, i only mentioned patch 2 because you were mentioning that the nerf isnt there yet.

Edited by ZeroGravity

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Like I said it is only unreasonable for you. And I dont complain about disabling GC Im just saying that some skills are worth disabling for the balance.

 

hahaha you don’t RMT? Hahaha you cant even answer the question you keep avoiding when it is the truth and you know it hahaha you are just donating to blind haze so you wont caught doing RMT hahaha. We weren’t born yesterday using that mind set 😉

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16 hours ago, HaZe said:

Just this last 7 days there were 35 different ninjas with logged kills and deaths. Still the job has a k/d of 2.5 while most jobs have 1 or under 1. They also had the most kills per user and least deaths per user. So basically they had the best stats in all areas..its not just 3 of u that play ninja. This is data from pvp woe and bg.

 

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27 minutes ago, caramellmacchiato said:
1 hour ago, ZeroGravity said:

Nerfing something is a way to achieve balance.

but it isn't there yet, is it?

Balance is not there yet, not the nerf.

I can quote Haze over and over again where he said " Oboro/Kagerou/Rebellion skills are still not balanced"

nerf in patch 2  balance

Edited by caramellmacchiato
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3 minutes ago, ZeroGravity said:

I dont even know why you are mentioning these things here? Taunting to have pvp doesnt have any relation to balancing. Please stay on the topic.

Its a pvp related discussion as well thats why it leads to disbling the class since its not on par with 2nd jobs skill but the 3rd clas vs this class is befit with it

But facing a class like this that can bypass even 3rd job is unbalanced

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11 minutes ago, jamieson said:

Like I said it is only unreasonable for you. And I dont complain about disabling GC Im just saying that some skills are worth disabling for the balance.

 

hahaha you don’t RMT? Hahaha you cant even answer the question you keep avoiding when it is the truth and you know it hahaha you are just donating to blind haze so you wont caught doing RMT hahaha. We weren’t born yesterday using that mind set 😉

And that is the point there is a discussion thread. To discuss why it is unreasonable for me and why it is reasonable for you.

 

I don’t. I already answered your question that I don’t rmt. This is the last time im repeating myself to the same question since the thread is about the skills, not about me. Again, please be mature and stay on topic.

Edited by ZeroGravity

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5 minutes ago, caramellmacchiato said:

Balance is not there yet, not the nerf.

Thanks for clarifying. Well I already stated my position. I think I would let haze decide on this.

Edited by ZeroGravity

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Nobody even care about your reason hahahaha. And why avoiding the fact that you are RMT? I just asked 1 question about the book of magic and suddenly you avoiding my comment hahaha. Well that’s what RMT boys do avoid getting caught 😂

  • Haha 1

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1 minute ago, jamieson said:

Nobody even care about your reason hahahaha. And why avoiding the fact that you are RMT? I just asked 1 question about the book of magic and suddenly you avoiding my comment hahaha. Well that’s what RMT boys do avoid getting caught 😂

I assume haze cares about everyone’s reason. 

 

Fact is different from accusation. Again this thread is for the disabled skills, not about me. I already gave you an answer that I don’t rmt. If you want further explanations on it then do it in a separate thread. 

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1 minute ago, ZeroGravity said:

I assume haze cares about everyone’s reason. 

 

Fact is different from accusation. Again this thread is for the disabled skills, not about me. I already gave you an answer that I don’t rmt. If you want further explanations on it then do it in a separate thread. 

Yeah everyone excepts yours hahahahaha

This is not accusation it is the fact and everyone knows it that’s why you cant answer my simple question hahaha. 

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Hey Zero, as a ninja, you should be thankful that they're only targetting those damage boosting skills. 

Wait till someone suggests putting cool downs on yo jumping/defensive skills. LOL

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15 minutes ago, oinkoink said:

Hey Zero, as a ninja, you should be thankful that they're only targetting those damage boosting skills. 

Wait till someone suggests putting cool downs on yo jumping/defensive skills. LOL

To be honest, i am thankful haze is doing something to balance pvp. The fact that i disagreed on this disable doesn’t mean im not thankful.

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@ZeroGravity

Not everything has to be black or white, especially in our server. That’s why our ratemyserver profile says “renewal-ish” not fully renewal. We have some renewal content with some pre re formulas.

i’m sure it would be ideal to have full pre re formulas and dynamics in hero arena but thats not a realistic thing to ask. 

It is already difficult enough to balance the hundreds of skills for our current dynamics, what you are asking is for literally each skill to be balanced twice. If renewal do this else do that. Not only that but you would be requiring players to completely change their stats and equipment every time they switch from a renewal map to a pre renewal map. This would not only be hella annoying but also confusing as well. 

I’m not going to spend hundreds or thousands of hours extensively modifying the source so we can be both pre-renewal in certain maps and renewal in others, and annoy and confuse everyone, only so oboro/kagerou and rebellion can feel “fair”.

Its quite simple. Any skill that existed in pre renewal should be usable in the HA while any skill that did not exist in pre-re should be disabled. All while having our “renewal-ish” dynamics in place.

The jobs can still be used in 95% of maps, division events, 3rd jobs pvp and WoE.

Now as others mentioned, i can go ahead and nerf the hell of all their skills damage and add cool downs so they are fair in HA, but that would mean completely killing the job in all 3rd jobs maps. I doubt thats what you want even though thats what you are asking for.

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I think he wants cool downs instead of just some skills to be nerf  in ha so that all ninja class will be useless in other area in which is a lot i think will suffer pursuin personal gain just for some skills to be abled in ha....

Edited by GhostAlpha1

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The think the bigger issue is with ninjas options as a class.

Magic is and will be the only way to play ninja since its physical aspects has never been addressed.  ( even though u claim u still have "physical" set of skills)

  • Final Strike damage  less than that of prewenal ( same thing that happened to sacrifice ei. % modifiers were removed but that was addressed?)
  • Throw Huma shuriken is a still a broken mess that cant be spammed rendering its use obsolete.
  • Throw shuriken is painfully weak compared to other classes skills. (even under earth charms)

Alot of classes have received tuning ( alot of buffs) to put their damage skills in a place where it felt like were werent swinging around a wet noodle.

Ninjas never had that problem due to the access of charms to compete with other classes in 2nd job pvp but now that thier gone what does ninja now bring to the table?

  • Nothing pretty much.

 

Dont get me wrong charms were insane and probally deserved to limited to 3rd job pvp but now that its ablility to have burst damage is gone its ablilty to be a killer, its limit to a weaker magical set the wl, and its useless phyiscal set  it will die in 2nd job.

 

Edited by bryan31
not finished

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8 minutes ago, bryan31 said:

The think the bigger issue is with ninjas options as a class.

Magic is and will be the only way to play ninja since its physical aspects has never been addressed.  ( even though u claim u still have "physical" set of skills)

  • Final Strike damage  less than that of prewenal ( same thing that happened to sacrifice ei. % modifiers were removed but that was addressed?)
  • Throw Huma shuriken is a still a broken mess that cant be spammed rendering its use obsolete.
  • Throw shuriken is painfully weak compared to other classes skills. (even under earth charms)

Alot of classes have received tuning ( alot of buffs) to put their damage skills in a place where it felt like were werent swinging around a wet noodle.

Ninjas never had that problem due to the access of charms to compete with other classes in 2nd job pvp but now that thier gone what does ninja now bring to the table?

  • Nothing pretty much.

 

Dont get me wrong charms were insane and probally deserved to limited to 3rd job pvp but now that its ablility to have burst damage is gone its ablilty to be a killer, its limited to a weaker magical set the wl, it will die 2nd job.

 

If your “never” is limited to the last 1-2 years then ill give you that. I wasn’t interested in boosting or enabling more builds or skills to an outlier job that was shining in PvP. Recent patches focused on skills and jobs that were lacking, not on the ones already destroying the arena.

now that their OP skills have been removed from HA then I can focus on boosting and revising their pre renewal skills. Just because they arent useful now doesnt mean they will remain useless in the future. This isnt a topic to balance their pre renewal skills or melee builds, its a topic that discusses the disabling of their renewal skills in 2nd job maps. 

We have a skill suggestion forum for a reason, go ahead and post your concerns there.

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4 minutes ago, HaZe said:

If your “never” is limited to the last 1-2 years then ill give you that. I wasn’t interested in boosting or enabling more builds or skills to an outlier job that was shining in PvP. Recent patches focused on skills and jobs that were lacking, not on the ones already destroying the arena.

now that their OP skills have been removed from HA then I can focus on boosting and revising their pre renewal skills.

Imm all in for of removing charms charms in 2nd job if it means its pre rewenal skills can be revised ( essentially bringing back hydrid ninja) and putting it in a more balanced place

4 minutes ago, HaZe said:

 This isnt a topic to balance their pre renewal skills or melee builds, its a topic that discusses the disabling of their renewal skills in 2nd job maps. 

We have a skill suggestion forum for a reason, go ahead and post your concerns there.

Idk about that one chief this topic originally was about limiting all extended classes  (gs, ninja, ?? maybe SN as well since its extended classes wasnt a part of 2nd job pvp and introduced in 3rd job rewenal ??) "3rd job" to 3rd job but it devolved into 2 sides arguing how broken (was) ninjas were and the tuning to its other skill kit while ignoring rebellion completely. Both sides aswell mud slinging and throwing out accusations. I was just including 3 physicals skills to prove a point and thier weakness to prove a point.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, TheMan said:

A hybrid ninja is going to absolutely destroy most things.  I don't think the physical aspect of ninjas can be very strong because of this.  You have to invest in VIT/magic reflect/magic resist/elemental resist to deal with a magic ninja and then if they're a hybrid build with a full physical build being on par with other physical classes they'll absolutely decimate people resisting the magic with how renewal ATK/MATK works so that to achieve good damage you don't have to max stat for either and hybrid builds are much more feasible.

 

This isn't even considering their ridiculous survival mechanics that were semi-balanced around them being if you get hit you die in pre-renewal.

absolutelty right.

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