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Honorable Guild

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31 minutes ago, Aan said:

Hmmm, unlike WoE. this feature is dominated by 1 guild. I dont know, but should be not like that.

Im thinking about reducing guild member capacity for this honorable guild especially, to increase the competitiveness. Maybe....

even if you reduce it's capacity it won't change anything other than making Overgeared guild kick it's inactive members. The problem with Honorable is the lack of leaders who are willing to take onto the competition. In fact you are wrong, because both OG and OG II are competing for it and OG II had in fact won a few times against OG 1. Seasons is also one of the guild that could make it if they have enough farmers but I don't think their leaders had that much time to recruit and train members.

The advantage that Overgeared has over other guild is because they have the best foundation already. They had the best farmers recruited already. To give you an idea, if you total the points of top 10 members of Overgeared, you'll reach as much as 1500 points already and that is when they have no competition or guild event that gives them more reason to farm points. That being said, if you limit it through capacity even if they can only farm with 20 members the points won't change much because majority of the members aren't even farming points atm.

Fun fact, most of the leaders in Overgeared are so lazy and sometimes they don't even contribute a single point in a week.

It's hard for veterans to invest time and zeny in a guild and compete with such a giant because it's a time consuming method. They need to give them a reason to farm those points and that's exactly what Overgeared does,.. give each of their members a reason to farm points.

If honorable points has an actual use in game, then perhaps it might increase the competition because it will give every player a reason to farm those points, but atm, unless there's a leader who can unite a guild to actually earn those points  so they could compete, then I doubt it.

I also want changes in honorable as it's boring without proper competition. But it's really hard to think of anything atm.

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16 minutes ago, Xileria said:

 To give you an idea, if you total the points of top 10 members of Overgeared, you'll reach as much as 1500 points already and that is when they have no competition or guild event that gives them more reason to farm points. That being said, if you limit it through capacity even if they can only farm with 20 members the points won't change much because majority of the members aren't even farming points atm.

Not trying to choose sides but can confirm this is true (in OG2). For the past few weeks our guild had a peak online rate of <20% (we had like 70 people in the guild). Most of the points we got are contributed by our top farmers (the points they have were in the range o 180-230). Honorable guild is a numbers game, even if there are top farmers in competitive guilds that can farm 200-300 points. They can still get beaten by guilds with higher online rate (50% or more should be enough, the higher the better). The key here is to get more active players and encourage each other to farm. This is very possible cause you see newbies in caspen all the time. They are probably the best potential recruits you can ask for since they are new and they will very likely complete Daily Quest and Zeph most of the time cause they need the zennies and items. I think i can confidently say that a fully active guild can easily beat OG1 or OG2 if they recruited frequently enough. 

On a different note, this also helps the server retain new players as they get support from a welcoming community. Based on some response i got from new players, they actually said that there are a lot of snobs in caspen cause they wont reply to their questions. I get that sometimes new players can bombard you with a lot of questions and the best solution i can think of is to direct them to DRO Wiki as most of their questions can be answered there. 

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Well its not like Seasons does not have leaders its just that there are only few people who farms and realized that its impossible to beat a guild who already got a ton of farmers vs 10 farmers on a new guild. One reason that most players shifted to OG because of that. Its still numbers.

Quantity > Quality. 

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10 minutes ago, TaguroV1 said:

Well its not like Seasons does not have leaders its just that there are only few people who farms and realized that its impossible to beat a guild who already got a ton of farmers vs 10 farmers on a new guild. One reason that most players shifted to OG because of that. Its still numbers.

Quantity > Quality.

We aren't the first one to hold honorable castle, there are 2 other guilds before us.
I also had that kind of mindset of "its impossible, don't bother" until we actually tried it, and tbh it was pretty easy lol. You just have to invest alot of time and zeny into it, which i think no one is willing to. 

And yes, it's a simple Quantity > Quality.

i.e 1 warlock vs 2 warlocks
1 warlock can farm 3pts per hour ( Zeph + Scav )
while 2 warlocks can farm 6pts per hour ( 2 Zeph + 2 Scav )

 

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It's the problem, when players are "overwhelmed" by what they see in points, not realizing it's not hard to achieve.

Just to give you an idea this is a record of a player from OG 2 a few weeks ago when they won.  I removed the player name just in case the player don't want to be posted but that player is one of the top farmer of OG 2.


4IpJvv5.jpg

As you can see, that player alone got 414 points without doing DQ and WOF, that in a week could give you some points too. He got 414 points while Seasons got 440 points right now which I don't know who obtained them since I am not part of their guild. (Maybe this should be made public, players points obtain in each guild lol)

That being said while quality is important, I believe that if you play that quantity card correctly you can also win. Because that's exactly how OG 1 is beating OG 2 most of the time, they have higher number of active farmers that gives at least few points each.

But before you guys misunderstand what I mean about "you can win by playing that quantity card", please take note that based on last weeks activity points, Overgeared only have 42 members who contributed points. Of that 42 players, 12 of them didn't even reach 40 points. Mostly 30 below. Even if you combine all their points it won't reach 300 points, a points that 1-2 hardcore farmer could get too.

That's why I believe that if anyone want to compete against Overgeared, they could always compete with numbers too as long that they are actually active. Having hardcore farmer is one thing but working together even with small thing could work. If they can pull 50+ active members they already got a better chance. This is also the reason why I believe it's useless to reduce the capacity. Reduce it to 30? with best farmers in other. Same result for sure.
 

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Limiting guild capacity for Honorable Guild is just like limiting guild capacity for WoE but way easier.
We can just divide our budget from Overgeared 1 and 2 and create Overgeared 3 and 4 and transfer half of the members from each guild to the other guild. 

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Reducing guild capacity is probably a bad idea for 2 reasons

#1) In terms of quality of players, existing winners of honorable guild has players that farms crazy amount of guild points. This means that competing with them in terms of "quality" will not be favorable to guilds that are competing.

#2) In terms of quantity. The best chance of winning is by having more active players than the current honorable guild. Why would any competing guild want to reduce the capacity for honorable guilds? It doesn't improve the odds of winning honorable guild. The only thing that it does is making it harder for competing guilds to win.

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actually what people need to realize is that if they'll only work together they could really do it, it took a month of recruitment for OG 2 to win against OG 1. Overgeared can't always keep their points high, there will be a week when their farmers are lazy or inactive for a while. It requires consistent recruitment.

Take a look at OG 2 that is normally only 100-300 points away but right now, they only got 1.7k points this week while OG 1 who got a lot of new members is at 3.2k lol.

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Join me in my quest of beating OG 1, still recruiting 😉

its a constant work tbh its been weeks, I guess what people lack of is the incentive to pay these active farmers to farm what seems like to be an impossible target but by weeks of doing this right you might see its actually be possible to beat the top guild

Edited by Latte

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Whatever you guys are pertaining OG 1/2 is still under the same management. There would not be any difference who gets 1st or 2nd you will still have the salary. Independent guilds that wanted to overthrow the top guilds would need to double their efforts but at their expense and to start from scratch. Of course who would want to join a nobody guild that does not give any salary if you lose and only get 1/3 of a chance on winning, players would definitely go to a guild that win or lose they still get the salary for their effort. 

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Pride. Thats what players in small guilds dont have. They will join a giant guild because it will give them salary on a weekly basis, which is ok. Smart move i must say. But no one here competes againts big guilds for honor. For pride. Because pride wont let you buy items. Thats why. Same with woe. People are only joining guilds that pay salary. But if no salary, nah why bother. Right?

 

So if you have the balls, if you have the guts to compete, then start with yourself. There was a newbie guild before that tried to dominate woe. They won couple of times before they left. That just proves that a few quality people can actually do it. Hehehe

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Well if you think 5 quality player could overthrow a guild that is enticing to newbies how could you compete with that. Its funny that people are still arguing with that somebody could do something  and just make effort but literally they are under the same guild. LOL. Again top 2 guilds are under the same management and it does not matter who wins or not. It just shows that they wanted to secure the top guild whether its OG 1 or 2. Players are smarter today and go for a guild that they would know that they would get something. One reason that the quality guild left is because they already prove the point that they got the talent but dont have the numbers and the other way around. 

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Whatever the reason is that they already prove that the opposing only got the numbers. And btw pride wont get newbies anywhere on the game. They would go with the flow until they realize the scenario. This is a game and players would want to get something for doing something. 

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2 hours ago, TaguroV1 said:

Whatever you guys are pertaining OG 1/2 is still under the same management. There would not be any difference who gets 1st or 2nd you will still have the salary. Independent guilds that wanted to overthrow the top guilds would need to double their efforts but at their expense and to start from scratch. Of course who would want to join a nobody guild that does not give any salary if you lose and only get 1/3 of a chance on winning, players would definitely go to a guild that win or lose they still get the salary for their effort. 

idk about same management, i barely touch OG2 guild. But for the sake of argument, let's say they do run on same management, they have completely different members though. This isn't like NX or Legends that has the same management and the same members.

OG is a non-profit guild. What i get from Honorable loots is not even half of what we spent on the same week. I literally lost more or less than 2 Trillion zeny in 3 months (Probably more) just to keep the guild running. Why? because our members invested their time and effort for the guild and i don't want to let them down. That's just me though, we have few more leaders who lost more or less the same amount as me.

If anyone can sacrifice more than what we did, they could definitely win. But guess what? Unlike us, I don't think anybody is willing to lose zeny for a bunch of newbies.

A lot of our members said to me that they probably would've left the server already if it's not for Overgeared, the guild gave them something to do or something to reach, some sort of achievement i say. I was glad to hear that.

If only you're willing to do sacrifices, efforts, make a guild, and recruit newbies, you too can get there.

Edited by Seamless
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You've assumed quite the big thing there. A guild splitting already means they aim to secure the top spots?

Overgeared split itself into two for the sole purpose of competition. Security? Whether the castle goes to one of Overgeared or another guild altogether doesn't matter in the slightest. Almost every time some guild takes the extra mile to achieve something, they get shot down by people demanding a "fair competition". If the guild's cheating/abusing something then sure, but otherwise?

Remember the old WoE Token thread? It's Xmas Hunters all over again

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I mean exactly, Seam. Most people don’t have 3T to begin with, even if they have the slightest, 1T— they wouldn’t have invested it in honorable as an incentive for newbies to farm points lol

Sure, Seam, me and Aselica are friends, we are under the same group but IDK about same management, OG 2 has its own budget and its own members, none of them are allowed to transfer guild and should consult to their respective leaders for whatever best for their guild and who to invite or what to do to beat the top guild so they can get better incentive by their guild leader holding a castle, so how IDK how you jump into conclusion "it doesn't matter who wins" when in reality you don't know a thing about our guild system

the guild has been distributing their treasury to over 150+ members with a point system, its from guildmates, for guildmates; at the end of the day

Edited by Latte

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1 hour ago, TaguroV1 said:

Whatever you guys are pertaining OG 1/2 is still under the same management. There would not be any difference who gets 1st or 2nd you will still have the salary. Independent guilds that wanted to overthrow the top guilds would need to double their efforts but at their expense and to start from scratch. Of course who would want to join a nobody guild that does not give any salary if you lose and only get 1/3 of a chance on winning, players would definitely go to a guild that win or lose they still get the salary for their effort. 

There's a huge difference on who win and lose, their salary and bonuses also depend on it. And wasn't that exactly Overgeared's weakness? Do you realize that having 2 different guild cost a lot and it's not in anyway beneficial in competing for Honorable? At the end of the day, there's only 1 title and castle available and both guild has to compete for it. A losing guild is just an extra burden, and each week Overgeared has one guild losing.

So tell me how would another guild need to double their effort? It's overgeared who are overburdening themselves right now by doubling their effort as they had to "manage" two guilds where one is doom to lose each week and still need to be paid. It's just an additional cost for them. I'm sure if the best farmer of both guilds are combined into 1 then they'll surely dominate it better than what they are doing right now. But it's not the case, each guild has their own members unique to each other and are seriously competing for the title. OG 2 is nothing different to any guild trying to compete for a single title against Overgeared 1.

The only question is, if both Overgeared will ever combine if another guild actually beat them to the title. But to be honest, I highly doubt they would for a reason I won't bother explaining. (some members of each guild don't like each other)


But right now, any new guild would only need to put at least 1 half of the effort of the whole overgeared. It means if they can be better or equal with any of the two guilds, then they already had a shot to win it, because any of the two guilds had already proven that they could win it if they put effort on it.


 

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Well i dont know if you could see the perspective of a newbie. Of course players would think its under the same management or whatever you call that but it has still the same name. Being  defensive on the what most players think that isnt in your guild. Im just pointing out what it looks like. And i dont think you would ever get the point of this. We all have our opinion and im standing on my point of view on how you manipulate the honorable guild system.

Btw i dont think overburdening is the correct word but you guys said it yourselves players need to accumulate 50 something points to be qualified to get the salary and you said also that not all could meet the quota so i dont think you would pay all 76 players right?. Also saying that you guys are being shut down by someone who wanted to have fair competition? Im not in any guilds that fight for honorable guild. It is my perspective of what i see in the game and my concern is that you guys are saying the opposite of what you posted in the guild section. 

Edited by TaguroV1

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22 minutes ago, TaguroV1 said:

Well i dont know if you could see the perspective of a newbie. Of course players would think its under the same management or whatever you call that but it has still the same name. Being  defensive on the what most players think that isnt in your guild. Im just pointing out what it looks like. And i dont think you would ever get the point of this. We all have our opinion and im standing on my point of view on how you manipulate the honorable guild system.

Btw i dont think overburdening is the correct word but you guys said it yourselves players need to accumulate 140 something points to be qualified to get the salary and you said also that not all could meet the quota so i dont think you would pay all 76 players right?.

 

  1. 1. Manipulate
    handle or control (a tool, mechanism, etc.), typically in a skillful manner.
    "he manipulated the dials of the set"

I'm really not sure about what you're fighting for, but thank you for telling us that we handle the guild in a skillful manner.

Anyway, we never said that players need to accumulate 140 points, I'm not even sure where you get your "informations" but if you want to know more about the guild, please have a free look into our Guild Thread titled "Overgeared 1&2"

 
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9 minutes ago, Seamless said:

 

  1. 1. Manipulate
    handle or control (a tool, mechanism, etc.), typically in a skillful manner.
    "he manipulated the dials of the set"


I'm really not sure about what you're fighting for, but thank you for telling us that we handle the guild in a skillful manner.

Anyway, we never said that players need to accumulate 140 points, I'm not even sure where you get your "informations" but if you want to know more about the guild, please have a free look into our Guild Thread titled "Overgeared 1&2"

 

I misread and edited it before you posted. Lol I just want more people to see what it looks like in game and what to expect. And i think i made my point here. Quantity > Quality. There is safety in numbers so they say. So even if others tried players would go for somewhere they could get benefit from. 

 

Btw why did you cut the second meaning on goolge. 😜

Edited by TaguroV1

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meh, it's not like we cheated our way to the top

at the end of the day, its all hard work and it paid off for all of us

you can't discredit our work just because we are so ahead. No matter what, whether if you want to say we were manipulative or monopolizing. or Quantity or Quality, whatever. whoever works for it the hardest should achieve it

Edited by Latte

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5 minutes ago, Latte said:

meh, it's not like we cheated our way to the top

at the end of the day, its all hard work and it paid off for all of us

you can't disvalue our work no matter what whether if you want to say we were manipulative or monopolizing. or Quantity or Quality, whatever. whoever work for it the hardest should achieve it

I aint being negative on your guild. Im just saying what is the scenario. If you cant accept what others think of it then its not their problem. 

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I'll stop here because up to now, I still don't know what you're fighting for.

32 minutes ago, TaguroV1 said:

Btw why did you cut the second meaning on goolge. 😜

2. Manipulate
control or influence (a person or situation) cleverly, unfairly, or unscrupulously.


Because this doesn't describe what we do at all, unfair? when? unscrupulous? when?  So i just assumed you meant manipulate as the 1st one.
Edited by Seamless

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I hope you understand you're being a little too selfish than we are. You're inclining at having everyone accept your points, and yet you have no intention of taking what we say into your account.

But to each his own; you're entitled to your opinion, after all. won't post some more because this drama'll never end

though if this is a troll's musings then you have given us a nice form of entertainment today. I'd thank you for that

Edited by Aselica

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